The Gun Control Follies / War on Terror
Gun control laws, frankly, don’t work. If you would care to argue the point, I request you explain the levels of gun violence in Washington DC, Chicago, Philadelphia, Mumbai and Detroit. Given the strength of the local anti-gun laws in these locations, gun violence should be nil. Somehow, however, it isn’t.
The problem, oddly enough, is that the only folks *ACTUALLY* impacted by gun control laws are law-abiding citizens, who, pretty much by definition, aren’t the problem. In fact, disarming citizens reduces them to victims, easy prey for the criminal set. Let us take the example of Colin Ferguson on Dec. 7, 1993. A Jamaican immigrant, Colin Ferguson seemed to be just another LIRR commuter, right up to the moment he drew a firearm and began firing indiscriminately, killing 6 and injuring 19 others.
The more things change, the more things stay the same…
Nearly 15 years later and halfway around the world, a very similar scenario, writ large, occurred in Mumbai. Again, if banning firearms worked, gun violence would be prevented, or so the theory goes. India has exceedingly strict law regulating private firearm ownership, which somehow didn’t prevent ten Muslim terrorists from terrorizing the city of Mumbai. This event could have been prevented, or at least ameliorated, with private handgun ownership. To quote Professor John Lott:
“The attack also illustrates what Israelis learned decades ago. — Putting more soldiers or police on the street didn’t stop terrorist’s machine gun attacks. Terrorists would either wait for the armed soldiers or police to leave the area or kill them first. Likewise, in India, the Muslim terrorists’ first targets were those in uniform (whether police or security guards).
Terrorists only stopped using machine guns to attack Israelis once citizens were allowed to carry concealed handguns. In large public gatherings, a significant number of citizens will be able to shoot at terrorists during an attack — and the terrorists don’t know who has them.
With mass shootings becoming more difficult, terrorists were forced to switch to a less effective strategy: bombs. Bombings are more difficult for armed citizens to stop because they can’t respond after the bomb blows up.”
This argument undercuts the specious argument put forward in the LA Times editorial today, that resisting terrorism is an “exercise in futility.” An unarmed populace are victims waiting to be victimized.
15 Comments
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A little more on India and the Mumbai terrorist attack:
"Indians have only 126 policemen for every 100,000 nationals (about half the United Nations average), the thousands of miles of Indian coastline on the Indian Ocean are guarded by mere hundreds of security forces (local authorities have pleaded for an infusion of many thousands), and the Indian navy has no large-scale presence in patrolling the country's coastlines. Indeed, initial reports suggest that the terrorists entered India by sea, at one point using inflatable rubber rafts to casually float through the historic Gateway of India, undetected and undeterred by any security forces. India must enhance its military and police presence throughout the country, but especially along its borders."
http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2008/11/022…
I have to ask does Mumbai count toward the point you are making? I can not say for sure but did they not bring the guns and bombs in from another country.
I can not say for sure but is not many crimes with guns commited in these American cities in fact illegally brought and sold through shady dealing from southen gun dealers.
If gun crime is being commited with illegal guns by criminals and not by law abiding citizens then I have to ask where are the guns being illegal used and brought and sold coming from?
If the laws are not working correctly should then one ask why and maybe be enforced correctly and illegal gun dealers held accountable… Yes I do not miss the point that bad people doing bad things are causing bad things to happen to good peoples and good people penilized. Humm,If that is the case what you said above…
Second follow-up, via Breit-Bart:
" LONDON (AP) – The British Broadcasting Corp. is reporting that six gunmen have been shot and killed by Indian security forces at New Delhi's main international airport. The report on the BBC Web site Thursday was attributed to airport officials.
Airports in India went on high alert Thursday following fresh warnings of attacks as officials said India suspects two senior leaders of a banned Pakistani militant group orchestrated last week's deadly siege in Mumbai. "
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D94S454G0…
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7766139.stm
Gary the Socialist: "I have to ask does Mumbai count toward the point you are making? I can not say for sure but did they not bring the guns and bombs in from another country."
And, Gary, if the population is unarmed, does it matter where the criminals obtain the weapons? The Palestinians used similar tactics until the Israelis permitted the populace arms. Ultimately, an unarmed populace is a collection of victims.
Gary the Socialist: "I can not say for sure but is not many crimes with guns commited (sic) in these American cities in fact illegally brought and sold through shady dealing from southen (sic) gun dealers."
National or state lines — the laws obviously don't prevent gun violence, now do they? The only people disarmed by gun laws are the people who aren't your problem — law-abiding citizens.
Gary the Socialist: "If the laws are not working correctly should then one ask why and maybe be enforced correctly and illegal gun dealers held accountable."
Ah, but many of the weapons are acquired legally through straw-buyers, Gary. While there are a spare handful of FFL's I'd like to see pulled, the overwhelming majority of gun dealers in this country aren't remotely part of the problem.
Gary the Socialist: "Yes I do not miss the point that bad people doing bad things are causing bad things to happen to good peoples and good people penilized (sic). "
No, Gary, what is happening is that in each city listed, left-wing control freaks, prefer disarmed serfs to an armed citizenry, with tragic results. When you disarm the people, you create an environment where the law-abiding are unable to defend themselves from the lawless, be they terrorists or criminals.
With mass shootings becoming more difficult, terrorists were forced to switch to a less effective strategy: bombs. Bombings are more difficult for armed citizens to stop because they can’t respond after the bomb blows up.”.. I heard a small bit at 11:39 today and if the above is true that then when things got tough in Irag the terriost fled to Affgenastan and then as things tightened up there they now fled to pakinstan and now in the biggest unreported story, are on the verge of taking over somilla and then onto and finish offf the troops from Ethoipa and start a new base in those countries and then join up with there brothers in the Sudan and make a allince with some other groups like in Chad and I forget the other country I am thinking of With an n maybe. My old Muslim languge teacher mentioned it several times.. But I look forward to reading that story above tommorow morning and to see if it clikes with that Rand group study about how to treat terrioum, as a war or police action.No matter how far and how much you spend can you ever end terror attacks. We have now spent what 750 billion trying to end it but as America addapts so do the others and as the preident said this will go on for decades but can we fight it for decades? Sure maybe if the finically crises leads to an end of money as we know it and come up with one currency and monitor it by electronic means and do away with paper then as all money is distrubed and you can no longer trade or buy with out goverment approval then .. No not even then.Ps forgot to mention when I asked about this years ago It was far fatched and since then America's tried to put a base and command station in the Country(ha,Ha) of Aferica and was told by everyone I think NO.
When concealed carry is permitted, then EVERYONE gets the benefit of the doubt: criminals cannot tell who has and who doesn't have a gun. As Robert Heinlein put it best: "an armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." John Lott backed it up with facts in "More Guns, Less Crime."
No country that has banned guns has benefited from lower violence. In England and Australia, violent crime actually rose after they banned guns. (http://www.ssaa.org.au/research/2008/2008-06_evaluating-britains-handgun-ban.html).
Guns from adjacent states with more "permissive" gun laws is a specious argument. Guns are a world commodity, and all banning them would do is raise the price for criminals, necessitating more crime to pay for them. A classic vicious cycle.
No, you can never stop terrorism, but you can curtail it, and make it more difficult and less effective for the terrorist, and simultaneously give the honest citizens a means to protect themselves.
Actually, Dims… I seem to recall that the UK police got caught mucking about with the crime statistics, trying to make things look like gun violence was decreasing in the aftermath of the ban.
Likewise, just about anyone can build a better than average firearm with the right manual, a few tools, a few shop supplies, etc. I wouldn't want to put too many rounds through it, but the jerry-built weapon would be good enough to kill someone in the pursuit of acquiring a "real" firearm.
Yes dave your 100 percent right on everything you wrote back.
I just read the story you had listed -Exercise -and it was ok nothing great and looked over the full version of this Rand groups similar story brief book and they are somewhat the same but I was stuck by the rands group study that whole countries will not fall as Somoilla gets ready to and the terror cells move on to Ethopia and Egupt in the coming years.So on goes the debate and on goes the attacks and war and police actions for the second decade.At the very least I look forward to seeing how the world treats these things with a new President that as he goes into the offfice they like from the get go.. Yes I do remember traving europa in the summer of 2001 and even at that point President Bush was not very well liked and I had many a debate that I would say he was a good man and will change the world and we should give him a chance. So lets see how things are with a president that they do like from the get go.
Gary: "I just read the story you had listed -Exercise"
Again — you have to learn to differentiate between news and editorial. The LA Times piece was the latter.
Gary: "At the very least I look forward to seeing how the world treats these things with a new President that as he goes into the offfice they like from the get go."
As evidenced by the 180 degree change in tune in Iranian commentary on his O!ness…
Gary,did you stop to ponder *why* some of these nations might like Obama?
Hint: http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,186…
"If you take out the killings, Washington actually has a very low crime rate." — Marion Barry, four-time mayor of Washington, D.C.
A little more grist for the mill….
Guns Don't Kill People, Philadelphia Does
by John R. Lott Jr. and Maxim C. Lott
http://www.lewrockwell.com/lott/lott52.html
Yes your 100 percent right of course dave.
So I was just reading this piece by time magazine I came across somewhere in some blog somewhere and what a great artical. It is nice to see the world embrace someone as there own as so many of this land have. The nice thing is it is so hard to go to war and want to kill someone when you consider them family.Like here in this country although there is so much nasty partical divide as always we would never go to war with each other hopefully because we consider ourslves family(cue the violins)..We are the same people grown up in the same land united by our love of freedom and beauty and the way we alll fight for the right to succed and be all that you can be and to earn as much as you can and never to let others take that away from you.. We are family from the hils of Vermount to the shores of floride( cue them down bring a up tempo here) to the vally of kanas and the oil fields of taxes to the far shores of Alaska and Hawill and to our embassy and our soliders fighting and dieing on lands most never heard of before we are familyyyyyyyyyyyyy (Slowly end Violin)How the world embraces our new President as one of them making us through out the world one family the family of huminity on this blessed rock in the middle of a countless galaxe on it's farthest regions of one of its arms in a space cleared out with the blast of a super nova to let us grow and spead the seeds of our home to what may be an empty universe.. God Bless huminity again….. Of course I left out angels and demons and genis and jens and giants plus all other life forms listed in the different works of religous literatures may God bless them to as well us the dammed
Gary: "We are the same people grown up in the same land united by our love of freedom and beauty and the way we alll fight for the right to succed and be all that you can be and to earn as much as you can and never to let others take that away from you."
Says the socialist, un-ironically…