OK … Now I Have Had Enough
This from Charles Krauthammer’s piece in the WaPo yesterday.
Even more egregious will be the directives to a nationalized Detroit. Sen. Charles Schumer, the noted automotive engineer, declared “unacceptable” last week “a business model based on gas.” Instead, “We need a business model based on cars of the future, and we already know what that future is: the plug-in hybrid electric car.”
The Chevy Volt, for example? It has huge remaining technological hurdles, gets 40 miles on a charge and will sell for about $40,000, necessitating a $7,500 outright government subsidy. Who but the rich and politically correct will choose that over a $12,000 gas-powered Hyundai? The new Detroit churning out Schumer-mobiles will make the steel mills of the Soviet Union look the model of efficiency.
The piece goes on to detail how political interference have roiled the markets and how, based on who is in power, what we most certainly will see in the future is a politically driven economy. Arghhhhh.
The ruling Democrats have a choice: Rescue this economy to return it to market control. Or use this crisis to seize the commanding heights of the economy for the greater social good. Note: The latter has already been tried. The results are filed under “History, ash heap of.”
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Schumer would proudly lead us to that paragon of efficiency, the Soviet auto industry of the 1960s. What do you suppose his comments will do to auto stock prices?
I guess Chuckie is done causing bank runs and has moved onto the auto industry.
Shmuck.
Just so everyone is clear here if you take the time to read this piece it is more about everything going on right now about the bail outs & the wall street to walfare programs and is in fact not about just Senator Schumer and possible trying to push for energy conseravtive cars.That quote is a bit misleading as to the nature of the artical. I ask can you bash the car makers for not making small cars and claiming that the workers make to much money on one hand and then bash our leaders for insiting that they do that and retool for the future to make us less dependent on overseas oil and put us exactly where we are. I also ask this has not the last 8 years been in fact a politcal economy and is this in fact not any different?
Gary, you're wrong on the facts.
First of all, Schumer is part of the problem, not part of the solution, having caused a run on a healthy California bank essentially starting panic where none was warranted.
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/laland/2008/07/fe…
Second, the Volt will not be "energy conservative." For starters, where do you think that electricity comes from? Currently, the over-whelming percentage comes from the consumption of fossil fuels. If Wikipedia is to be believed, about a little over 70% of US electricity comes from fossil fuels, as of two years ago.
Thirdly, Gary, the "artical" is an editorial column.
Fourthly, the workers in the auto industry have historically been over-paid, receiving skilled labor wages in exchange for unskilled or semi-skilled work. This isn't really all their fault — the corporations were foolish enough to agree to the contract, but there are a few bits of liberal coercion in the mix — it is illegal to hire replacement workers in Michigan, so the corporation is, essentially, negotiating with a gun to their head.
Fifthly, as for "re-tooling for the future," that has been one of the things the UAW has fought tooth and nail against for decades, preventing automation of the industry at every turn. Likewise, you assume that Americans *want* small cars, which runs contrary to the sales figures / economic realities of the industry.
Sixthly, there is an easy way to decrease our dependency on foreign oil — encourage domestic production. This will be less of a priority, given the current market, but it is still a laudable goal.
Lastly, the only political economy comes from the left, Gary — y'know,with Barry promising to bankrupt the coal industry, Chuckie starting runs on healthy banks and a collection of lawyers who know nothing about the automobile industry telling the Big Three how to make a car.
I wonder: does Chuckie Schumer's plans come in five year increments?
Democrat engineering (and economic) skills are not unlike Muslim extremism: they use force and terrorism (ecoterrorism and ecopropaganda in the Dem's case) rather than persuasion to enact their crazy ideas and force them down the throats of ordinary folks.
It is unfunded and illogical mandates from the government that has run the price of cars from what was an average of $2500 per car in the early seventies to an average of $25,000 today. Sure the cars are better in many ways, but an order of magnitude better? I think not. And that isn't even counting the computerization mandates that have almost completely removed auto repair from the hands of the average slob.
When Chuckie shows me one thing he has created, one business he has run successfully, or one job he has legitimately created, then, and only then, will he be qualified to tell businesses what to do.
Y'see, Dims, you have a collection of lawyers who are, coincidentally, great patrons of their fellow ambulance chasers, who seem to think that, despite their utter ignorance in the fields of engineering, physics, etc., they know better than the auto industry on how to spec out and build a car. The problem is, as in frequently the case with Congress, their have authority and no responsibility. They are free to demand caviar results in cars that are meant to sell of hamburger prices. And should their various safety demands, environmental demands and other unfunded mandates put the domestic auto-makers at a competitive disadvantage, it in not the Congressional culprits who find themselves in hot water.
I could not possible answer back all that Dave or dimsdale claim. Other then to say if you two truly believe that democrates are extremismist and that they use force and terrorism to accive there ends I do wonder does that make Washington Dc a hot bed of terriost acctivity and like that congresslady said we need hearings to find out who is unAmeican Americans and who are the Great Americans then what point is there in debateing you because to imply that several hundred million people in our country support terriousm is just insanity… I also have to ask why does the world in a collecitive sign hope that we become what we once were with a new admistaion. We can look at ourselves and see our best and hope that others also do but the rest of the world is not seeing what we are seeing in ourselves and we have to ask why?I might add no you both did not say this and also add, right makes right, not might and that has allways been or I thought what the would liked about us.( our fairness and postive outlook and inventiveness, can do, go for it and make life for all better ways.) …some old words of wisdom..When all our wrong and your right then maybe your the one wrong.
Sure the cars are better in many ways, but an order of magnitude better? I think not… I think so, it was the mandates like seat belts and airbags and bumber requirements that saved my life in a head on collusion and of course Gods will and compassion and those same laws that save millions of lives all and everday across the world.
Y’see, Dims, you have a collection of lawyers who are, coincidentally, great patrons of their fellow ambulance chasers.. .I believe it was laywers who helped President Bush win the election with there aguements to other lawyers and I am lacking in education but was it not lawyers that put together the documents that made this country what it is from its founding to today.
Lastly, the only political economy comes from the left.. I would say (not)each and everyday it's politics that make our economy. The politics of be it enviorment or war spending or energy or the type of material of the clothes on your back is all based on politics and it has been since this country started. It is politics and policys that drive our economy like free trade or tax breaks to companies coming to your town or state with the hope that they will increase the tax base with high paying jobs.
Likewise, you assume that Americans *want* small cars, which runs contrary to the sales figures / economic realities of the industry… Then you can not say the new auto manafactorys in the south with temp workers and fourlow days and lack of pensions and lower wages are not making cars people's want and our just a figment of our collective imgeanations.
Fourthly, the workers in the auto industry have historically been over-paid, receiving skilled labor wages in exchange for unskilled or semi-skilled work.. Ok if these groups of American workers are doing jobs that are easly done by trained monkees is that in fact not true of each and every single one of us.So why do we not all for the good of our 401K's take a 75% across the board pay cut to make us worth what some claimed that we are only worth.. Me on the other hand have to say if I declare auto workers as overpaid then they have every reason to declare that doctors are over paid and doctors can claim lawyers are over paid and they can claim trade peoples are overpaid low skilled bufons and on and on as we all race to the bottom. I thought we all stove to be the best make the bast and earn the best wages and beifits which is why so many try and come here. Oh thats also right many are returning to the countries of orgins illegal and legal because of how worker unfriendly we have become.
For starters, where do you think that electricity comes from? Currently, the over-whelming percentage comes from the consumption of fossil fuels. If Wikipedia is to be believed, about a little over 70% of US electricity comes from fossil fuels, as of two years ago…. Magic maybe?Yes and with the policys of President Bush and now President Obama less and less will be coming from fossil fuels. President Bush put a lot of money and time into finding new techologies and some of those are now showing up everyday in America… If we can let the auto manafactorys die off because they are overpaid and making a product that we can not afford or what any more why is oil any different?
it is illegal to hire replacement workers in Michigan, so the corporation is, essentially, negotiating with a gun to their head… Or maye they are and will negotiate with fairness and respect for there employes as they themselves the workers also do back.. Is it wrong to have job security anymore (?)and is it now the rule that each and every single one of you is nothing more then a unskilled low skilled disposable company asset that the minute you show weakness or get old and tierd that it is off to the scrape heap and lets bring in this new shiny younger model because you cost to much. So if that is what you are then you had better exccept it and fight as hard and furiuiously as you can to get everything you can from your company and to take them for everything they are worth because loyity goes both ways and when you realive that you are nothing but a unskilled low skilled hire and fire asett intill your old and raged you had better make sure you have some body on your side like a union or at least some goverment regualtions to protect you because I quite agree here we are nothing but dispoable assetts but when I leave a company my empoyers put there money where their mouth when they say stick with us we are going places and will always keep you they leave me with great health care and a 401k and a pension. So workers of the world demand that you employers put there money where there mouths are and encourge you to join a union and demand the best of benifits that you can get,turn back the clock where you were respected and apprecated and become proud low skilled unskilled blue collor and white coller workers and do not be affaid to get what you can ,you work hard and deserve it and do not let any one bash others because the minute you agree that them other workers are bums you let yourself become one yourself.God Bless American and it's workers and all those that labor in the new corn and cotton fields of modern day and though out the world.
Gary: "I believe it was laywers (sic) who helped President Bush win the election with there aguements (sic) to other lawyers and I am lacking in education but was it not lawyers that put together the documents that made this country what it is from its founding to today."
And they were arguing point of law in that instance, Gary, not issuing ignorant decrees regarding how to build an automobile. As you are fond of saying, try to stay on topic.
As to the Founding Fathers, they represented a cross section of the population of the time, spanning the wealthy to those with more constrained circumstances, including a number of self-made men. More importantly, even the lawyers had careers beyond the law. Jefferson, for instance, was also an inventor, a farmer and an architect. John Adams was also a farmer. some of the more notable members weren't lawyers at all, such as Benjamin Franklin (writer and inventor) and Washington (surveyor, farmer and military officer).
Gary: "Then you can not say the new auto manafactorys (sic) in the south with temp workers and fourlow (sic) days and lack of pensions and lower wages are not making cars people’s want and our just a figment of our collective imgeanations.(sic).
More like, just your fever dreams, Gary.
Just because the factories are in "right-to-work" states does not mean the workers there aren't permanent. Admittedly, they don't receive anything quite as ridiculous as GM's "jobs bank" program, but that is part of the reason GM is in trouble — paying employees not to work as a part of the UAW contract.
Likewise, Gary, your statement has absolutely nothing to do with my statement. That foreign automakers choose to operate outside of Michigan has nothing to with the American preference in cars.
Gary: "Ok if these groups of American workers are doing jobs that are easly done by trained monkees is that in fact not true of each and every single one of us."
Firstly, Gary, you're trying to put words in my mouth. "Unskilled labor" has no relationship to "trained monkeys." You're flailing.
Secondly, no, Gary, what *I* do couldn't be done by a trained monkey — leastwise not until they can train one to perform statistical analysis.
Gary: "I thought we all stove (sic) to be the best make the bast(sic) and earn the best wages and beifits (sic) which is why so many try and come here. Oh thats also right many are returning to the countries of orgins illegal and legal because of how worker unfriendly we have become."
Gary, how can the negotiation between the union and the employer be just when the state takes sides, legally tying the employers hands?
As for illegal workers, who care? They weren't supposed to be here anyway, depressing the wages of legal workers. The meat industry used to be a decent job — not a great one, but a respectable job that paid an honest wage. Not today — too many illegal immigrants in the trade.
Gary: "Or maye(sic) they are and will negotiate with fairness and respect for there employes(sic) as they themselves the workers also do back."
When one side has the ability to shut down the facilities and the employer has no recourse, then you have no "fairness," Gary. One side has a gun to the others' head.
As for the rest of your post, quit posturing. There is an old saying in the legal realm: If you have the facts, argue the facts. If you have the law, argue the law. If you have neither the facts or the law, bang your shoe on the table.
Gary, you're banging your shoe.
Yes I am banging my shoe. So Thanks for letting us all know that unlike all them unskilled low skilled over paid lazy detroit union and non-union employess that well just about anybody can do there jobs putting together 5000 lbs machines that have more parts then you can count under very strict guidlines and to great tolerances all under very strict conditions to make a well tuned machine that will last for years and when in case of an emergency will employ there safty devices and will not polute the water and when taking and exploding a highly flamable liguid will not in turn kill you and whose final emmisions are scrubbed clean will not polute the clean air that I am getting use to, you on the other hand produce statistical analysis. I give you credit and in no way infer any disrespect but which one of you is in fact making a useable highly desired product that has been assional to making this country profitable and posperes. I say your both credits to your jobs but I will not demean one of you to make myself look better then the rest…Your remark about facts is quite good and touchea and I have listed facts in my statements but as you sit at a computor all day reading numbers I am out on job sites that give your computor power or at buildings that produce your sports shows or wiring a building for yale that will produce the researce that will help extend your life and mine. I do not rate my self any baetter then you or the oil riggers or auto makers we are all together as a whole to make it better for the one or some thing like that that was written 400 years ago on cape cod by the religious leader of the pilgrams. So heres to you statistical analysis. Do your best and be the best that you can be but you are no better then me or the auto workers of detroit. Oh I have time and time again said I am a high school drop out and never went to college and was cleaning tolites at the age of 14 to help my mom pay the bills so enough with the (Sic) I get it your smarter then me but in no way does that make you better then me or any other blue collor person in America or any where in the world and that is A Fact.. Thanks always for the fun debate.
Gary: “So Thanks for letting us all know that unlike all them unskilled low skilled over paid lazy detroit union and non-union employess (sic) that well just about anybody can do there jobs putting together 5000 lbs machines that have more parts then you can count under very strict guidlines (sic) and to great tolerances all under very strict conditions to make a well tuned machine that will last for years…”
Uh-huh… which is why the conventional is never buy a car that was built on a Friday or Monday arose, all that quality work coming out of Detroit.
Hint: Lemon Laws didn’t come about because of Honda or Toyota automobiles. Just saying.
Gary: “I give you credit and in no way infer any disrespect but which one of you is in fact making a useable (sic) highly desired product that has been assional (sic) to making this country profitable and posperes (sic).”
Oh, obviously — just look at how well their doing in the market-place.
The car-makers enjoyed decades of success, from the late forties until the seventies. Do you know why? I will assume the negative and tell you — because the overwhelming majority of their competition had been A) converted to military production and B) largely been bombed flat. In other words, Porsche and Mercedes Benz had been building tanks, leastwise up until the Eighth Air Force started dropping bombs and the Allied armies over-ran the factories.
However, in those decades of prosperity, the seeds of the industries current woes were laid. The automakers, unwilling to risk an interruption in the gravy-train, caved to the unions. This did two things. First, it saddled them with ruinous legacy costs from a perk that arose as a result of Roosevelt wage freeze during the war years.
Second, it taught the unions that they could get whatever they wanted out of the companies, regardless of how illogical their demand might be.
However, we rebuilt the industries in Europe and Japan, giving them a industrial base decades ahead of our own. While US companies were doing things the same old way, our competition innovated. When such things as Total Quality Management (theorized and developed in the US) were ignored domestically, they were embraced overseas, particularly in Japan. Whereas Japanese unions are partners with the corporations they work for and seek to excel, US unions, particularly the UAW, are adversarial and institutionalize mediocrity, placing more importance on seniority than capability. As a former dues-paying member of an AFL-CIO affiliate, I know that of which I speak.
Gary: “Your remark about facts is quite good and touchea (sic) and I have listed facts in my statements but as you sit at a computor (sic)all day reading numbers I am out on job sites that give your computor (sic) power or at buildings that produce your sports shows or wiring a building for yale that will produce the researce (sic) that will help extend your life and mine.”
Your ignorance would appear to go beyond book learning, Gary, or the facts of the topic under discussion. You presume to speak of me as if you know me, which you most certainly don’t. You know nothing of me, yet presume to judge.
I have worked outside and inside, unskilled and skilled, blue and white collar. I have worked the factory floor, had an after-work beer at 8:00 am and hustled from my night job to my day job. I’ve even been in a couple unions and so know of what I speak when I critique them. So, frankly, your “working class hero” shtick cuts no ice with me. Been there, done that, got the t-shirt and decided I wanted more than that.
Gary: “So heres (sic) to you statistical analysis. Do your best and be the best that you can be but you are no better then me or the auto workers of detroit (sic).”
I decided I wanted better than the factory floor, I worked my tail off and got more than the factory floor. I have the scars to prove it. Unions, on the other hand, impede ambition and impose mediocrity, rewarding only tenure.
Gary: “Oh I have time and time again said I am a high school drop out and never went to college and was cleaning tolites (sic) at the age of 14 to help my mom pay the bills so enough with the (Sic) I get it your smarter then me but in no way does that make you better then me or any other blue collor (sic) person in America or any where in the world and that is A Fact..”
No, Gary, that is an opinion. Now, truth be told, it is an open question, one that gets answered on a case by case basis. At no point have I said I’m better than anyone. I will say that I have worked hard to earn what I have and begrudge a nickel of what is mine to bail-out either side, union or auto-maker. They have chosen their beds, let them lie in them.
When you choose an action, you choose the consequences of that action. To bail them out is to divorce cause and effect — they have enjoyed the fat years and played the grasshopper. The sweat of my brow should not be stolen to save them from their own folly.