Obligatory Video: Ohio police officer “interaction” with concealed carry permit holder
If you have a concealed carry permit in the state of Ohio and you are carrying a handgun, you are required by law to “promptly” inform law enforcement on their approach you have a permit and are carrying. This video – released yesterday – deserves a post and your comment.
Before the video, here is the state statute applicable to this situation. (Sec. 2923.12)
In this instance, supporters of the driver are stating he tried to inform the officer twice, and both times he was forcefully told to “shut up.” Eventually, the driver was charged with failure to notify – a misdemeanor in Ohio – and threatened to be executed by one of the officers.
Near the 13:30 mark of the video – which as I understand it is more than 10 minutes after the driver notified the LEO he was carrying and put into cuffs – the officer states…
I’ll tell you what I should have done. As soon as I saw your gun, I shoulda taken two steps back, pulled my Glock 40, and just put 10 bullets in your ass and let you drop.
And I wouldn’t have lost any sleep. Do you understand me?
And he [other LEO on scene] would have been a nice witness as I executed you because you’re stupid.
Language warning … raw unedited audio (Jim won’t be playing this on the air). Note that eight minutes have been removed during the process to identify the passenger, and they edited out personal information that could be used to identify the passengers.
- What is the legal definition of promptly? Would you consider that law vague? Would you think it a good idea to open your window and yell … I have a concealed carry permit and am carrying a gun!
- Should the driver have been more assertive when he tried to inform the officer?
- What should happen to the officers?
We all know the ranks of every profession have their bad apples, and this video is only one example of the interaction of one or two officers, so in short … this topic is not open to generalized police bashing.
Early that Wednesday [June 8, 2011] morning, William pulled his car to the side of the road to let out two passengers, but only the female occupant managed to exit before the police pulled up and began screaming at all three parties. “Stay in that car, I’m not going to mess around,” screamed one of the officers at the two people attempting to exit the vehicle. The driver and concealed handgun licensee, William, remained seated in his vehicle when an officer entered the rear of the vehicle.
William stated, “I have a concealed carry, and…” when he was abruptly told to shut up. Dash camera video footage shows the driver turning his head, and his voice can be heard, but the words are inaudible. A few minutes passed while the officer continued to berate the two passengers. He proceeded to the driver’s side and tries to open the door but is delayed by a seat belt.
William states “I have a conceal…” and the officer demands that he better tell the truth or else! This interruption causes William to “tell the truth” and his attempt to notify is interrupted. William exited the vehicle with his driver’s license in the same hand as his concealed handgun license. He held it up for the officer to see, and the officer said, “Why are you having that?” This gave William the opportunity to say, “I have a CCW, and…” The officer then said, “Do you have a gun?” William answered yes, causing the officer to grab it from William’s waist.
At this point, William was handcuffed and put into the police cruiser. The officer then started to berate William, stating: “I should blast you in the mouth right now … I’m close to caving in your head.” and “you’re just a stupid human being!”
Update: Ed Morrissey at Hot Air also picked up this story today.
This is how a professional conducts business,
@TomL – This is a thread drift, but why even approach the guy in the video you linked to if what he was doing was completely legal? I agree the officer?handled?the situation very well, but if you’re simply driving a car, does that give law enforcement the right to pull you over to check if you have a license to drive a car?
If someone calls the police and states they are “uncomfortable” about something, that should not result in a response where you are questioned by law enforcement for doing something completely legal.
Unfortunately?in Connecticut, there have been instances where a permit holder is charged with “breach of peace” for carrying openly simply because someone is “uncomfortable” or a bit freaked out about it. Of course, it’s a completely false charge since you should not be charged with breach for something you are legally able to do.
I live here in Connecticut Steve, and Over the years I have been stopped on a couple of occasions by? the newington P.D. and the bristol P.D., and once by the plainville, P.D for there weekend DUI check point. All threre times I was stopped I told the officers unpon there arrival at my drivers side window, that I was a permitt carrier, and that I was carrying on me person. They ” were all ” very professional , and asked me where It was , I told them, and they asked me? to please keep my hands where they could see them at all times, and they had a back -up officer standing on the right side of the vehicle until the stop was completed. They both thanked me for being very co-operative, and for informing him upon approaching my window , that I was armed, and was a CCW permit holder. To me , it makes perfect sense to make the officer aware of? the fact that you are carrying, and making every attempt to try and make the stop as less stressful for the officer, and for myself, as much as possible, as we all know that? the moment an officer goes to make a stop, there adrenilan is already pumped up pretty good, why make it any more stressful for them, and for me, I worked to hard to get my permit, and means to much to me to have the…
?Someone saw my gun & apparently called 911 & 4 squad cars & 8 cops stopped the CT bus I was on. I continued to read my book until one came up to me & demanded.”what you got?” I said ,”do you mean my gun?”. I handed him my permit,he then asked for my gun cuffed me & took me off the bus. They checked on the validity,one screamed in my face that I was waving it around. Another searched my backpack & found a little knife I had & another yelled,”do you have a permit for this too?” I just smiled while they tried to goad me into some kind of action,tho my guts were churning. Luckily they had the bus hemmed in & it had to wait for me. So I even got to work on time.
It’s obvious who and?what the problem is here. The question is, how will this officers superiors treat this? Will they be professional, and discipline or?terminate the offending officer, or will they somehow try to justify his behavior as we have seen too many times? Will they claim the conceal and carry laws put them in danger and therefore can use their own “judgement” when conronted with a situation like this? Will we see this play out on the main stream media?
?I have lots of questions.?
?you?re just a stupid human being!?? should apply only to the officers, who had to know they were being videotaped by their own vehicle!? Either they are just plain stupid, or they were sure that their superiors condone these acts and will back them.
The last person that a cop has to worry about with respect to an assault by an armed suspect is a person that is doing their best to inform the cop of the presence of his legally carried gun.
The threats of execution, even in sarcasm, should be punishable by both firing and prosecution.? It is a threat by an armed person, and cops are not exempt from prosecution for this.? Clearly, these two must have watched “Dirty Harry” the night before…
The man clearly does not disclose that he has a concealed weapon and had many opportunities to do so. However that does not justify the response from the cop. The cop is angry from the get go he has some emotional issues and should absolutely not be a cop.?
I would never inform a cop I was carrying.? Police today are more dangerous than any criminal.
The cop should be fired for incompetence, and they know it. That’s why he got hysterical the first thing they should of done before approaching the vehicle was clear it! The cursing swearing cop needs anger management training while being held in secure facility. You can tell from the body language of the 2nd officer he knows his partner is way over the line. Oh and don’t you love how they made sure the camera couldn’t record anything to the right of the vehicle just in case special measures where needed?
This NOT how any police officer should conduct a traffic stop!
A perfect example of heavy handed, abusive, police arrogance. There is no way citizen William could have informed the “officer” that he had a CCW and a firearm after the “officer” directed him to “shut up.” This “officer” might have shot him. If I were citizen William, I would be talking with my attorney. Cops like that give all of the other hard working, professional, career officers a very bad name. The “officer” in this case is clearly wrong right from the beginning of the encounter. He sounds like a drill sargent talking down to a raw recruit! Nothing citizen William could say would have been correct.
This “officer” is a real sterling example of what is wrong in the law enforcement community; bad officers like him should be summarily fired and barred from ever holding a position of authority ever again. He should never have even made it past the psychological screeners. He certainly has some anger and emotional issues;? if he is married, I pity his wife and children. This “officer” desperately needs anger management counseling. If retained on the force, he is going to kill some one!
I hope that citizen…
I’m sorry to inform you that most cops act like Gestapo agents because they can get away with anything in today’s world.
The cop appears to be a frightened bully who knows he’s violated all kinds of procedures and ignored common sense that could have gotten him killed.? Frightened inept people do and say stupid things.? Both cops should be fired and the law rewritten to define “promptly” and/or require the officer to ask, not demand the CCW information.
Against the background of the TSA demanding that we all “See something, say something.” or inform on our neighbor, this type of police behavior is particularly alarming.? Can a secret police or an internal security force be in our future?? Oh wait, I think Mr. Obama has already proposed one.
It seems to me, the Ohio law is backward. The law should be for the policeman to stand back from the car and his first statement should be, do you have a concealed weapon? It should be up to the officer to decide, if the question is necessary. He should draw his gun if the answer is Yes. Then ask, do you have a license to carry a concealed weapon?? From there you gun guys would have to say, do you trust him to hold the license up or is it worrisome that if he tries to get the license he could use the gun? I don’t know.
I do know this police man was scared because he put his head in the car and then found out there was a weapon. I would be scared too. But if a quiet methodical approach was set forth to follow, the police man would not have to be afraid or act so stupidly. He was simply a bully from the get go. I’d rather watch “Cops” than this video again, this is one scary video.
Lynn, yes, there is a methodical procedure for every routine traffic stop.? That is the first mistake this cop makes, not following routine.? Then, the mistakes are compounded.? (I will ask a state trooper friend about this incident & get his feedback to post later)? What is notable besides the belligerence of the officer, is the calm demeanor of Williams.? With all the threats and demeaning, he remained calm.? The officer acted like judge and jury, and finally, executioner.? I worry enough about unlawful citizens “on the streets”, now I must worry about the cops?
A personal experience from our local officers:
When we had a dispute with our neighbor years ago, police were called by my wife to diffuse the situation; it all ended well.? But, one of the first questions asked by the officer to each of us was, “do you own any guns?”? So simple, so direct.? Why couldn’t this officer step back and allow his partner to ask the important questions.
This is apparently one of the not really common police officers who should not be a police officer. He’s what some people call ROUGE. He really should be removed from the force before he hurts or kills an innocent person.
You know as little about cops as you do about spelling.
Went to the ohioccw.org/cantonpd website to read more about this and saw this banner at the top of the page:
UPDATE 7/22/2011: Canton Police announced Thursday that the officer was relieved of all duties in June following an internal investigation complaint filed in this matter.
Anyone in the Canton area who has a permit to carry a concealed weapon should be breathing a little easier knowing this clearly unstable officer is off the streets.
The officer should be removed from the street and placed on desk duty?.? He has clearly?lost his ability to do his job.??
Thanks Winnie, good to know. I hope every state shows this video as to what not to do.
Yep, relieved of all duties.? Go to the newspaper account and you find the officer was first on sick leave and then read the union’s response.? The officer is a 14 year veteran of the Canton PD with a number of complaints including excess force charges.? Comments in the forum section following he newspaper article are also informative.? Any bets on whether the officer will be retired due to illness – with full pension and benefits?
?A sucker bet,you’re sure to win.
Off the force, yeah. ?Still can kill somebody, yeah. ?He should have been proscecuted for threatening and not allowed to possess guns. He’s a repeat offender and those are the most dangerous. Very frightening video.
Plainvillian, Thanks for the follow-up.
There are aholes in every profession, but few get to be an ahole to the general public AND have a gun hanging off thier hip.? That said, the police in general have a difficult job at best.? It gets worse as you get into the city vs. the ‘burbs and lose light for darkness.? That deosn’t excuse this Bozo’s act which would be found to fail every one of Ms. Manners’ rules of thumb.
The thing that gets me is that he KNEW the camera was rolling and STILL proceeded to act like a Brown Shirt.? I can only guess that this is normal activity, which should not be tolerated.? Exit one bad cop – stop giving those with a badge a bad name.?
I was going to post a lengthy comment regarding this skinhead punk with a badge and tactical gloves (his gang paraphernalia), but since other commenters have made it known he was relieved of duties, I think I’ll just leave you with this thought: Coming to a mall near you.
HAHA, Tim, I can only imagine the (anti-) Paul Blart, Mall Cop…
“Approach the suspect while turning your hip slightly to the side, reaching back to make it appear you have a weapon…”
?They’re all around us!