Are you paying for your “rich” neighbors’ electricity?
Our President has declared that we must reduce our dependence on foreign oil. And, there are still many that believe that carbon dioxide contributes to “global warming”. So, imported oil (and apparently domestic as well, see: the Gulf drilling moratorium) is “out”, and solar is “in”. Let’s examine that.
Solar panels cost about $210 per megawatt of power produced. Coal costs about $95 per megawatt hour, and natural gas clocks in at about $125 per megawatt hour. Given those numbers, it is difficult to understand why anyone would invest in solar power. Enter, an assortment of states passing “feels good legislation”, and, of course, the federal government.
Here’s an example.
Dave Shiels, and his wife, Katheleen Keily live in Arizona, and so far they have installed 72 solar panels on their red-tile roof at a cost of $80,000. But,
[t]heir local utility, Arizona Public Service, a unit of Pinnacle West Capital Corp., gave them about $37,600 in rebates. This was funded by a charge on all customers’ bills, about $4.05 a month for the average customer.
And,
[t]he federal renewable-energy tax credit kicked in another $12,700 toward the Shiels-Kiely solar array and the state of Arizona added $2,500. Out of pocket, the couple put up about $27,200.
But, the good news is, by doing so, they have eliminated their annual electric bill, and, of course, the $4.05 per month charge on that bill that the other rate-payers are paying to provide them with their solar panels.
Silly me…I thought that the left was all about taking money from the rich and giving it to the poor.
It could have been mentioned that the coal producers received about $17B in subsidies from 2002 to 2008 and the oil and gas producers have been receiving around $4B per year in subsidies. I venture to say that w/o the subsidies coal and oil/gas prices would have been higher and that the cost/megawatt of electric power produced would have been higher too.
Good point, but the "traditional" power sources are clearly cheaper, demonstrably more reliable, 100% more portable, and make up about 95% or more of our energy supplies. The payback on solar occurs at almost the exact same time as they have to be replaced. The rich folk can afford that, but us po' folk can't, and we are being billed for the 27 large that the Shiels are getting spotted, and getting nothing for it.
Is anyone else as seething angry as I am about this? We have to stop subsidizing everyone's everything we simply can't afford it.
You're right Dimsdale… it's all smoke and mirrors, a favorite trick with lefty green whackos. Our energy needs in this country cannot be met with any of the available alternative sources. It's a nice dream for the greenie types but it's simply not going to happen.
Good thing you were not around when semi-conductors and integrated circuits arrived on the scene. With this kind of "visionary" thinking we would still be using vacuum tubes. Are the Rightists modern Luddites?
When the output of solar panels follows an analogy to Moore's law (the power of computers doubling every 18 months), then we can talk about people being Luddites.
Nobody is talking about destroying technology, or not developing it, but we want something that actually works. Fusion, anyone?
Actually, to deal with your example, there has been a resurgence of interest in vacuum tubes, as their performance is superior to their digital replacements, according to audiophiles…
I do not consider myself a luddite. I am not an early adopter of technology, I wait until it has been proven and the prices come down.
Some technology,ie computers, cell phones, flat screen television, has proven to be useful and have come down in price due to mass production which was driven by demand. In other words, the free market.
Alternate forms of energy production have not proven themselves to be practical for the market. Production has been limited and thus they are priced out of the market. Some of these will never amount to much of our energy supply and what we do get will be expensive. You cannot put a windmill in your backyard.
It is a false economy to artificially raise the price on conventional energy (through taxes and refusals to drill or permit drilling) to make the "green" tech look economical.
I see that you all have forgotten about NASA (your taxes at work), which drove the need for miniaturization for space applications hence integrated circuits, hence small computers, small cameras etc, etc, etc. As for vacuum tubes, I bet they are really cost competitive. As to windmills in your backyard, you have forgotten about all the windmills that have powered for decades water wells in countless farms in the Midwest etc.
Seems B.O. forgot that – didn't you hear NASA is getting out of the space business and it's new mission is "reaching out to the Muslim world "https://radioviceonline.com/nasas-new-mission-make-muslims-feel-good-about-themselves/ . BTW that really helps that really helps aerospace industry here in Connecticut.
Yes. I guess Øbama must be a Luddite. And as much as I may admire the accomplishments of NASA, would not most of those advances have been achieved in the free market anyway? I guess we will be finding out with NASA being effectively decommissioned by Fearless Leader. Oh wait: he is dismantling the free market too.
As for vacuum tubes, I have a choice whether to buy them, and no government subsidy. And they perform, unlike solar panels.
Why is it the lefties are fighting windmills and biomass and Diesel engines etc., all things that could presumably (all together now!) lower our dependence on foreign oil?
Sammy could you put a windmill in your yard?
can't put a wind mill in your yard until you get a permit from the town[TAX] GET IT INSPECTED[TAX] etc…..
Dims, you are always on point (not). And TomL: I would, but I bet that if you were my neighbor you would not let me.
Well I guess that puts me in my place! LOL!
I respectfully disagree. My points are spot on: I don't mind subsidies for real power sources that both inspire exploration and keep prices down. The alternative is a cold, dark, expensive world.
I'd want to tap in. Go to You Tube and look at the videos of when windmills go bad.
Sammy I'm a libertarian, I could careless what my neighbor does
Hey TomL, you are also funny. I bet UTube also has videos of airplanes going bad, cars flipping over etc. That should keep me under the covers. I am glad you are a Libertarian, and would not care if my windmill fell on your house, or maybe you do…
Sammy1st time I saw a windfarm was out in the mojave desert, what an eyesore
What good are solar panels at night, on cloudy days, in the northern & southern extents of the globe? What good are windmills when the wind is not blowing?
The other solution is to conserve. Today's and tomorrow's energy needs are ever-growing. Take a look around your home and make note of every electrical appliance that has a digital clock, digital memory, an A/C – D/C transformer, an infrared sensor at the ready…the list goes on. How many of us shutdown our computers, printers, speakers each and every time we are not using them (sleep mode still uses power) not only in our homes but at our offices?
I'm a conservative and I worked with a group of 11 other folks, all liberal. Funny, I was the only one who shutdown my computer each night. ("Do as I say, not as I do" mentality)
People ignore conservation.
Use it up, wear it out, make it do or do without.
It should be practiced by everyone, not thrust upon us by snake oil salesmen, Jim and Tammie Fay Baker,
John Kerry – "that SUV is my wife's not mine" ,
Nancy Pelosi – " I need the 727 this weekend – and put it on the tax payers tab".
and Al Gore – " I want YOU to have a size 2 carbon foot print while MINE is the size of Nashville".
But don't force me to use those hideous squiggly CFL's everywhere. Some lighting needs to be warmer on the spectrum scale.
Bottom line…you are paying so “the rich” can get free electricity.? Feel like a sucker yet?
Funny – did this happen before with rural electrification. Everyone paid, a few hundred of us in the great plains were hooked up originally. All so the rich could have power while skiing in Vail Colorado.
I am sore on this point. New transmission line grace ugly towers in our town. Built to boost the supply in the southwest corner of the state. Of course , the closer it got to the destination, the more the locals boo hoo'd about having to look at the towers. Sooo, they were put underground at EVERYONE's expense. – Can you say salt in the wound.
I think we are still paying for long completed rural electrification too! Taxes never go away….
I am waiting for the people that put Øbama in office to admit that they were the suckers that elected an empty suit just so they could "be a part of history". I think the history they are part of will be a new Dark Ages…
Bottom line, SOS: your example was for AZ. Are you saying this is going on everywhere in the US? Then we are all suckers (you too)!
Sammy, we are all suckers when it comes to subsidies for anything. If something cannot survive in a free market, it should not exist, or, at least, reveal its true cost as you stated above about coal & oil so that the consumer (and taxpayer) have a choice. For instance as technology and lifestyle advances, some things become obsolete (re: <a title="Blockbuster Auction" href="http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/04/04/us-blockbuster-auction-idUSTRE7331XV20110404" rel="nofollow">Blockbuster Video, <a title="Tribute to Floppy Disk" href="http://www.geeknewscentral.com/2010/04/26/tribute-to-floppy-disk-as-sony-discontinues-production/" rel="nofollow">floppy disk, & say it ain't so, <a title="Pringles needs renewal" href="http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/food/2011-04-05-pringles-image-change.htm" rel="nofollow">Pringles)
You are only a sucker if you are taken in by the pol's reasoning. Otherwise, you are a victim.
It's not just solar power that is subsidized. Have you heard of the <a title="CL&P CT Energy Efficiency Fund" href="http://www.cl-p.com/Home/SaveEnergy/AboutCEEF.aspx" rel="nofollow">energy audit for your homes? You put up $75 dollars and the government/CL&P affiliated contractors come in and weatherstrip, install squigglies, insulate, etc.
Quite some years ago I paid $1800 to have my 170 year old house fully insulated. A year later a friend had his house done for free……….on my and your dime. (And, yet our electricity costs continue to rise!)
Funny, I never did get a thank you card.
Worse yet, the installers probably would have charged the government $5000 to do your house (while the gov't "does" us…).