It did not start good and it will not end well. In Ohio, DLH – the German shipping company with the bright yellow trucks – will be pulling up stakes and 7,000 employees will be loosing their jobs. My guess is that many of the positions are part-time, but it still a brutal sting for the local economy as the company discontinues parcel delivery operations in the United States at the end of January.
Since the door to federal funds is now wide open, Gov. Ted Strickland (D-Ohio) is asking Congress for help to mitigate the effects of a $7.3 billion budget shortfall. $7.3 billion. $7.3 billion.
Here’s the first paragraph from MSNBC’s online story.
As the economy sputters and tax revenue plummets, governors and mayors across the United States are lining up to ask President-elect Barack Obama and the new Congress for hundreds of billions of dollars to plug holes in their budgets, arguing that services will suffer and joblessness will rise if Washington does not come to the rescue.
Washington to the rescue my ass. The federal government is not here to support states when they overspend. This is the entire problem.
Malkin has more, and commenter Tom Blogical notes”
Oh, give ole Ted a break. It costs a lot of money to dig up dirt on all us Ohio taxpayers.
Good one.
About Steve M
Loading ...
I am sure the Conservatives have the fix: cut taxes. That will surely bring DHL back to OH, re-instate all the job losses and erase the $7.3B shortfall.
When it comes to solutions Conservatives are a one trick pony, and when the economy tanks (see what happened this past year), the fickle finger of blame is pointed at somebody else (though someboby who was sold as a Conservative is in charge).
This is crazy, the bailout demand is getting out of hand.
Hey wheres my bailout
My income stayed flat
while my tax bill went up 7%
@db – I did not know that fiscal responsibility – just like my wife and I practice every day – was a one trick pony. High taxes are just part of the problem, excessive spending is the real curse.
Did the state of Ohio continue to pay employees and provide benefits they knew could not be sustain? It’s happening in municipalities all over the place. My mom has been screaming about it for more than 15 years.
I have no idea if lowering taxes would have kept DHL in the package delivery business, and would not blindly suggest that would help.
No worries, Steve… I suspect that ill-informed tripe is db’s one trick.
DHL decided to pull out. They have been losing money since they entered the US market. They are doing well elsewhere in the world. They didn’t want tarp money, they just wanted out of the US market where they could not compete.
This all stems from a centralization of power. When you give the federal government too much money each state becomes dependent on them. Taxes should be collected and spent on a state and local level. I believe that this was the intent of the founders of this once great nation. Now federal government has so much money and power that the states are enslaved to the feds. We need to de-centralize government.
-Erik
Steve and Wynward,
too bad you are neither running OH nor the country. If you did all would be right, right?
The people we elect to office tells us what they believe in and how they would govern. What happens when they get there? They get a good dose of reality. What would you be willing to do without? I bet it’s things I would not want to do without and viceversa. Hence the reality check.
@db. Yup, it all us conservatives that spend excessivley. No doubt about it. CA, NY, MA, NY, CT, NJ all conservative strong holds (sarc) have no money…..due to over spending.
Tax and spend locally. Local govts sign contracts with local employee unions offering benefits and retirement packages that cannot be sustained.
db: “too bad you are neither running OH nor the country. If you did all would be right, right?”
We’d at least have the mother-wit to realize folks don’t go into business to lose money. We have the money-sense not to throw good money after bad.
What we have now is not a failure of the free market. What we have now is the failure of a hybridized partially centrally controlled market.
I hope Obama and his economic team have the stones to tell Ohio and the rest of the panhandlers the same answer Gerry Ford gave NYC.
So all the states are going broke. They paid too much money to their workers etc etc,They have to good benifits for their workers etc etc, they have too good health care for their workers etc etc etc, they have pensions and the rest of us don’t etc etc etc. The rest of have nothing so they should also have no health care, high wages that kept pace with the times or pensions and like certain former federal treasury people have said America’s had better get use to it, retirement is a thing of the past and people will need to work till they die at there work station and then hauled off to the local landfill because there familys have no money also to bury them or have them burned.. Some made up but really how far away as things go on and we keep bashing each other for making a living that we have decided is only for the richest of richest and the rest of us are their working slaves to troll the fields and labor for the wealthy who pay to much taxes while we the uneducted lower class hourly wage earners are destroying America by asking to make a living and with our social programs like public education , so to a have a possibilty of retiring someday..I understand some have been complaining for years decades even about woking people making a living. so .
So lets let some of these states fall and go bankrupt. They can sell there assets as they have been doing. We once brought a large part of this country and we still are indivaal states and goverments and maybe some of the roads and bridges we have been selling to foreign goverments might be intrested in buying out whole states piece meal.I understand California is nearly bankrupt and is the worlds eight biggest market so why not sell that off to maybe the Russians. We could I am sure get a nice penny for Alaska from Exxon. I would think the state of Ct should be worth something and when the state gets sold say to new york and we become their property and it’s people they can remove labor laws and voting rights as we fall as the Free market dicktats and we all become Property of the people of Other lands all because we decided that it was better to bash each other for making a living and after all if several states and goveremnts go under and we become say 28 states would we not be stronger in the long run now that the free market has worked and if need be in several hundred years after we become a land of slaves to our corporate masters they will be able to buy back the country from the money they saved by not having to pay wages or for educations as we are all wards of the company that owns our local cumminity or even better how about we start to sell the names of our states for say 50 million a year COnnecticuit-Physercut,New York-New Wall State.Texas-Mexacus. Or how about we start to merge with other states before selling away our country in Bankruptcy and then we become The United 30 States of Add Corporate name here. We can then blame it all on Union workers and State employees for earning a living.Were in this together and don’t let a few here turn you against each other for making a living because before it was the unions or public employes it was the Mexicans,The Irish, Blacks, Catholics,Jews. The Arabs,The Muslims. The more we turn on each other the more money those with money can make off of blaming each other Your Americans stand pround and say God Bless those that have Unions and health care and are able to join together to fight for a livable salary because with out those that are able to fight for pensions and 401k etc you won’t have any but wait that is the point of this story why should people make a living while I don’t I have nothing so no one should fight to the bottom so the top can rule your soul as you beg in the streets for a scape of bread to feed your childen like those in the rest of the world.
Opps sorry got long winded trying to defend against more American worker bashing.
Gary, when you learn punctuation and grammar, I’ll read what you have to say. When you’ve taken a few economics courses, I’ll take your economic commentary seriously.
My goodness, I have had enough. Gary, Gary, Gary…..spending control is critical. Labor is the single biggest expense for state and local governments. States can put off repairs, curtail building projects, delay capital improvements….but fixed base pay income contracts cannot be touched.
Every other busniess sector cuts pay, cuts benefits, reduces hours to stretch the available cash. Govt just raises taxes, keeps signing long term compensation plans, without seeing through paying in for it. Kind of like the Big 3 autos with UAW. Gary you and I will be paying for a long time for all these bailouts. Bailing out is only rewarding poorer behavior.
It is like I’ve said before, Wayne… government is recession-proof and never has to make do with less, like the rest of us. They just reach a little deeper into our pockets.
All the bail out accomplishes is thwart the free market and allow incompetent and inefficient competitors to remain in the market.
Hey, Wayne, speaking of those UAW hacks… and in this case, I literally mean hacks!!
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,472304,00.html
” The United Auto Workers may be out of the hole now that President Bush has approved a $17 billion bailout of the U.S. auto industry, but the union isn’t out of the bunker just yet.
Even as the industry struggles with massive losses, the UAW brass continue to own and operate a $33 million lakeside retreat in Michigan, complete with a $6.4 million designer golf course. And it’s costing them millions each year.”
Lets not get personel and mean this is nothing but a blog and means nothing Wyndeward…
So folks lets put our cards on the tables I personel believe in each and everyone of you and wish the best for you and your famiels and hope you seced in all that you do and make a nice living off of it while doing it and are able to retire in the way of your parents and grandparents. That being that I have to ask the masses here who do you feel does earn there wages. We know it is not teachers or firemen or poice or dot employes as they all work for varies goverment agencyies and a host of others for space reasons were left out. I know there is a bias against UAW workers and unions and people making more then what you peronsenel believe they should and feel that all these groups are holding you down in life and it is all there fault for your peronel wealth issues. So What do you feel you should be paying in taxes for all that you have.?How much should a worker in a field make? How much do you make and are you causing me to pay more for a product or service that can be done cheaper by someone in say The middle east or ethopia.I will say I have no ill will against any of you for making a living in the most expensive country in the world but I choose to join a union and fight with other workers of my trade and stand up for myself and make a decent living and not blame ever single other person in the country because I brought the line that I am my own man and should make my own way which if was true then we should get rid of our constution and become sperate enties and fend each other off and do away with the geat good. So lets here it this story and its comments is about states being broke and blameing workers and employess and some how UAW worker so tell us what you do and how much you earn and why your better then everyone else. I still will follow the path that I am better off paying taxes and enjoying all the good that comes out of them and a person is entiled to being able to earn enough to retire and have a penson and health care from the craddel to the grave.Weird the solist here is fighting for a higher wages and a standerd of living and all the right wingers are fighting for every one to have less and make less and less and less.
It’s not personal, Gary. I won’t read anyone else’s posts that look like a single run-on sentence, bereft of structure and content, containing only the author’s dogmatic ramblings, just to be fair…
Wyndeward -ok I forgive you. For a moment there I thought you might be one of them north east collage educated liberal elistest that only feel that those educted in ivy league schools are allowed an idea or thought and the rest of us that work for a living should just go about are daily days in the fields and keep our mouths shut for because we don’ts speak rights meanens we dum and no allowed to talk for we two stupids…Just kidding.. If that was true you would be supporting the up and coming goverment hand over fist after having the greatest business people the world has ever seen running the country these last several years.. Hows the American bankruptcy, going out out of business sale,working for you?
Now, Gary, if you’re going to try and get personal, you’d have to know something about me, which you don’t. This is partly because you don’t pay attention / don’t retain what you’re told.
Likewise, just I as I would not dare to tell, say, an electrician how to wire a house, I’m not inclined to take economic advice from a high-school drop out.
Ignorance doesn’t mean you’re not allowed to talk… it just means the rest of us aren’t obligated to take you seriously.
Meanwhile, back in the real world, Rich Lowery points out that we’ve survived worse…
http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=NzZiMGU1ZTI1NTRlYmVjYjYzMzY3NTcyYmVkYWE1YWE=
Governor Rell will probably be the 58th state to submit a request – after the other 57 states that Obama says we have suck the pot dry.
@Steve, Wyndward,
You are better at putdowns, than at cogent statements.
You are also better at talking the talk, than the other thing, and at deflecting challenges to your positions than to replying to the challenges.
Looking at the past is no guarantee of having success in the future. The world of 2008 is quite different than the world of Gerry Ford, by the way. What worked then, may no work now. And if the market is not free, than stop talking how the free market would operate: how would you know if it does not exist?
IAnd please, at least recognize that the current economic situation has some relationship to the FACT that the White House was in Republican hands for 8 years.
I’m not inclined to take economic advice from a high-school drop out… Good news the new teams coming into the White house are all collages educated so I guess you will be supporting them or are they like me not educated the way you feel they should be maybe? I mean I am uneducated so my beliefs and views were not properally taught to me and trying and run a business did not count and maybe these collage folks coming in were taught at the wrong universaties so that only leaves what now that the top and bottom are cut off so just who are left?
db: “You are better at putdowns, than at cogent statements.”
If that isn’t the pot calling the kettle black, I don’t know what is, db. You’ve not said anything informative. All you have done is come to pick a bun fight.
You’ve suggested no answer — the governor of Ohio standing there with a little tin cup pan-handling the Federal government is no answer. You’ve rubbished what you presumed to be the conservative answer but brought nothing constructive to the table yourself.
And, db, since you haven’t been paying attention, most of the problems are structural, having their roots sunk as far back as the Carter administration, when the Dems, who held the both the Legislative and Executive branches, iirc, decided that the government should socially engineer the housing markets. Madoff was a life-long donor to liberal politicians. the FM twins were essentially a Dem slushfund /warehouse for Dem hacks.
The liberals thought they could manipulate the markets for socialized ends. As such, this is not a failure of the markets, but a failure of social engineering.
As for Ohio, they let their budget bloat under good times without a thought to the possibility of a down-turn. They chose… poorly. They have three choices — raise taxes, which will likely cause more damage to the state’s economy, cut services, which the pols will be leery of doing, since it may hurt their re-election chances, or attempt to stimulate the economy with judicious tax cuts.
Your problem is that you think government is better equipped to spend your money than you are.
Obviously, Gary, you don’t know what courses go into a Journalism degree…
Oh, and while we’re at it…
A collage (From the French: coller, to glue) is a work of formal art, primarily in the visual arts, made from an assemblage of different forms, thus creating a new whole.
@ Wyndward: thanks for the “history” lesson of the 70′s, while dodging the statement of who was in charge in the White House from 2001.
As for OH, you offer 3 choices and pick none. I say that if you want a smaller shortfall you cut spending. What say you? Cutting taxes makes the hole deeper ( at least for a while) don’t you think? Even if the tax cuts are judicious, can you tell us what that means?
Keep picking on Gary, too; you get great points for that. And, God you must know a lot to give lessons on so many subjects.
db: “thanks for the “history” lesson of the 70’s, while dodging the statement of who was in charge in the White House from 2001″
No dodges, db — but is your thesis that the responsibility for a long-standing problem is the guy whose watch the problem finally boils over? A little strange — it validates the “kick the can” approach, rather than actually solving problems.
db: “As for OH, you offer 3 choices and pick none.”
Not my state, not my problem. I’d likely lean towards a combination of the latter two, but that’s a preference. If you believe in static modeling (i.e. nothing economic decisions change as a result of a tax hike), go ahead and raise taxes.
db: “Cutting taxes makes the hole deeper ( at least for a while) don’t you think?”
That would depend on which taxes and how deeply you cut. Reagen and Bush’s capital gains tax cuts increased revenue, as the reduced Federal percentage increased the willingness of those holding capital gains to take those gains, the result being that the lower rate, when combined with an increase in market activity, created more revenue.
db: “Keep picking on Gary, too; you get great points for that.”
I’m not “picking” of Gary. You’d have to have been here for the first act. I’m simply tired of a high-school drop out trying to explain economic theory to me.
db: “And, God you must know a lot to give lessons on so many subjects.”
The advantages of a well-rounded education, db, including the school of hard-knocks.
@ Wyndward
You’re good: I’ll give you credit for that.
But, “who is kicking the can down the road now”? Maybe GWB and the Republicans?
Not your state, not your problem: very good answer, NIMBY…
Standard answer on the”cut taxes” routine.
Poor Gary, he cannot grasp “economic theory” according to whom?
And finally: I also have a well-rounded education including the school of hard knocks: sooooooo? what’s your point?
db: “But, “who is kicking the can down the road now”? Maybe GWB and the Republicans?”
Yes and no — the bill is due and we’re already in the process of paying through the nose… but, yes, the current bail-out isn’t the best answer and will try to put-off the final reckoning of the whole mess. We’d have been better off letting the existing system — including bankruptcy — handle it. Free the market from the social engineering / gov’t manipulation.
db: “Not your state, not your problem: very good answer, NIMBY…”
db, my state has more than enough problems. I know what is going on here because I’m here. I know the taxes because I pay the taxes, etc. Ohio is another set of facts, ones I am not as familiar with, ergo the more generalized answers.
as for Gary, like I said, you should have been here for the first act. He’s a socialist, despite the failure of socialism around the world as an economic basis of operation — if you think that the unemployment rate here in the States is bad now, why embrace the policies that have institutionalized higher rates in, say, Spain, at 10%+, or France at 8.1%? Even those places where it worked, due to demographic advantages, such as Denmark and Sweden, are finding that liberal immigration policies are undermining the system. Socialism has a “free rider” problem — there are always members of the population willing to make do on the work of others.
Of course, my main problem is that Gary doesn’t answer questions, he just hammers his shoe on the table in a semi-literate fashion.
@ Wyndeward
As I said you’re good:
Yes and no to the “kicking the can”.
NIMBY was as OK too: you do not live in OH, and CT has its own problems: great!
As to Gary: a diatribe about those God forsaken socialist countries (have you live there? I have).
And no reply to the well rounded education bit..
Seeing as you don’t respond to the meat of my posts, preferring simply to rubbish and snipe, I’m not feeling particularly obligated to respond to everything you post in yours, db.
Besides, the day job does get in the way.
I gave answers you did not like.
You waffled on the yes and no.
Considering that the whole post was started with OH’s problems, you shifted to CT because you “did not know what is going there”.
How I am sniping? I wanted “accountability” for the statements, instead of dogma and not addressing the issues. Too much to ask?
db, you had no constructive answer to Ohio’s quandary. From context, you seem to prefer the notion of the bailout, which is foolish — better the state get its house in order and live within its means.
Hint: unless you propose a continual transfer of wealth from the Federal government to Ohio, all you do with the “bailout” is put off the day of fiscal reckoning. It is a bit like those silly sin taxes that some states lay out for dual purposes, such as a cigarette tax to fund child health programs and get people to quit smoking — if the second goal is successful, where will the money to fund future years of this entitlement come from?
You’re far better at trying to rubbish other people’s opinions than expressing your own. In times of fiscal trouble, the government should have operate like everyone else — within their means. Ergo, the choices the states have are clear — borrow money and accept the future drain on their budgets, raise taxes and accept the economic downside risks, cut spending and live within the current tax income or cut taxes to stimulate economic activity. They can mix and match, of course, but it boils down to these elements.
You, in either your belligerence or naivete, want a silver bullet, which you seem to believe the bailout to be. While dumping federal money on the state would patch a hole in the current budget, it does nothing to solve the real problem — Ohio’s government is spending beyond their revenue. If the economy doesn’t immediately rebound, what will they do next year? Better yet, if their mismanagement of their budgets drives Ohio into the level of mess of the state of Michigan and the recovery *does* happen, but by-passes Ohio, what will they do then — come back to DC with a tin cup?
Pan-handling the government is not a useful answer.
Back on Dec. 31, I said: “I say that if you want a smaller shortfall you cut spending. What say you? Cutting taxes makes the hole deeper ( at least for a while) don’t you think? ”
I never advocated a bailout.
I am neither belligerant nor naive, and I do not believe there are silver bullets, not even the “cure-all tax cuts”.
Living within one’s means is worthy goal, sometimes it works sometime not for individuals as well as governemnts.
When in the red, I would try to cut spending. That is easier said than done, since one has to choose what spending to cut.
I think it is naive to think that a govenment budget can be managed like a household or even a business budget (for which there are usually more tools which can be used to handle spending/borrowing than for a household).
.
Hello… First off lets let credit go to where it belongs and that is with the listeners and the callers and Jim himself for having me claim to be a socialist. That started earlier this year when as I was listening to the insane thoughts and spills about people on the left and business that I would start to call in as the Gary the socialist and recite nearly word for word back the exact words and ideas in a tongue and cheek kind of way but it became dull to keep it up and I was to busy earning a living to listen all the time to write down more and keep going. As far as being a high school drop out is concerned, do not thing for one minute you can hurt my feeling about not being an educated one as some of you. I do know that I have my own business and had and empolyed goood honest hard working people in all three of my businesses (same one just different orgenazation,taxes and liabilty you know)as they evolved and am proud to say when I laid off the people that worked for me they left with a pension and a 401 k of there own and will retire in a custom that there parents did that I wish and work for all to have the same ability to also. So go ahead take your shots but in the end I am a far better free enterpriser like those of old then anyone of you who here fight for people to earn less and have less. Yes and that is right if I have to fight for the little guy here against all you so called smart college educted economist against working people and have to claim the name socialist to do it so be it… I have to wonder how proud Jim is to see his Disciples at their best here and taking so many nasty shots at his extended work family else where and so one more time, that is why I call myself a socialist here and fight against elite snobs and there self rightous holier then thou attiudes be they on the right here or on the left… Long live the workers of the world -viva la revolution…Also I take none of this personel and get quit a kick out of it so I also say neither should any of you… Hppay new yares. Studies show only the first and last letters need to be correct and the brain moves the others around as needed so take that you spelling nazies.